Britain's Greatest Ever Military Hero?

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I have no deep comment, but I think the list was mis-named. With only one Irishman and no Scots, it is a list of England's greatest military heros.

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Good point Dean. Where is Robert Bruce. He may have taken a little while to get going but once he did I think he fits the list.

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And William Wallace

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Heroism or Leadership? Now that I have had an afternoon to think a little more deeply about this and looked “hero” up in the dictionary, what I found interesting is that the list mostly focused on leadership and martial and administrative skill and was much less focused on acts of courage. The list might be more correctly called the “Greatest Ever English Military Leaders.” The definition of “hero” that is most appropriate here is “any person, especially a man, admired for courage, nobility, or exploits, especially in war.” Nobility I can’t speak to. All who made the list were famous for some exploit or several. Many of the commanders on this list did not engage in individual acts of courage during the exploits that gained them a place on the list. Of course Nelson sailed into the thick of most of his battles and Col. Jones died leading from the front. On the other hand, “Bomber” Harris is not on the list for shooting down five planes in the First World War; he is on the list for running the strategic bombing campaign against Germany, a campaign that required thousands of individual acts of skill and courage. But, it did not require Air Marshal Harris expose himself to the great danger faced by his aircrews. It did require a great deal of moral courage, not just to advocate for area bombing, but also to continue the campaign in the face of the losses Bomber Command was suffering. That said, I would still argue that moral courage is a characteristic of leadership, and different than an individual heroic act. Audacious commanders do not seem to be represented to any greater degree than more orthodox leaders. True Nelson (a very audacious Admiral) won the poll by good margin, but Montgomery was most successful when he was most orthodox. In the main it seems that to be a ‘hero” in this poll results count more than anything else. Upon reflection, the list of “Greatest Ever British Heroes” is probably an artifact of way history is taught in schools. Armies (or fleets or air forces) are often depicted in school book history as extensions of their commanders. As a result the commanders often become endowed with the skill and heroism of their troops, and the exertions of their troops are often overlooked. My original comment about the list being too “English” is probably also a result of how history is taught. Both William Wallace and Robert the Bruce were enemies of the English Crown. It would be interesting to take a similar poll in the United States. I suspect that more individual acts of heroism would be noted, such as Alvin York. I think that heroic, but eventually losing figures such as Robert E. Lee, Sitting Bull or Geronimo would make the list as well. I don’t know that Marshall or Eisenhower, both great leaders, would be identified as “heroes.”

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I struggled with the leadership vs heroism aspect of this list as well. In the main I think heroes in war are unsung and you are right, this is a list of leaders although Nelson and some of the others did demonstrate great physical bravery.

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Deankal hit it on the head. Are we looking at Heros or leaders. If Heros - then my vote goes to only 1 man. Captain Noel Chavasse won two VC’s in World War One. Qualified as a doctor, Chavasse joined the Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) when World War One broke out. His unit of the RAMC was attached to 10th Battalion King’s (Liverpool) Regiment which fought at the Battle of Hooge near Ypres in 1915. The ferocity of this battle was such that out of 900 men in the 10th battalion just 140 men and 2 officers survived. For his gallantry, Captain Chavasse was awarded the Military Cross. On Day 1 of the Battle of the Somme, the battalion was ordered to attack the fortified village of Guillemont. Along with many other units, the 10th battalion suffered major casualties. Chavasse tended as many of the wounded as he could even into the night- time. He was hit by shrapnel twice and on one occasion carried a wounded man 500 metres back to safety. Chavasse also collected as many dog tags as he could of men killed in the attack. The citation for his first VC stated: “Altogether he saved the lives of some twenty badly wounded men, besides the ordinary cases which passed through his hands. His courage and self-sacrifice were beyond praise.” Chavasse received his VC from King George V in February 1917. In July 1917, Chavasse saw action at the Battle of Passchendaele. With his men, he set up an advanced first-aid post in a captured German dugout. The Germans shelled this position and Chavasse was hit in the head, fracturing his skull. He received treatment for this serious injury and despite advice to the contrary, returned to his first-aid post. Further shelling led to two more head injuries. On his orders, stretcher-bearers took other wounded men back to relative safety, as Chavasse believed that he had to stay where he was to support men who were there. On August 2nd, 1917, another shell blast resulted in a severe stomach wound, which required treatment at a casualty clearing station. However, the wound was so severe that Chavasse died on August 4th aged 32. The citation for his second VC stated: “Though severely wounded early in the action whilst carrying a wounded soldier to the dressing station, he refused to leave his post, and for two days not only continued to perform his duties but went out repeatedly under enemy fire to search for and attend to the wounded who were lying out. During these searches, although practically without food, he assisted to carry a number of badly wounded men over heavy and difficult ground. By his extraordinary energy and inspiring example he was instrumental in rescuing many who would have otherwise undoubtedly succumbed under the bad weather conditions.” Chavasse was buried in the military cemetery at Brandhoek in Belgium. His headstone is the only one in the world engraved with two VC’s. (Although there have been other double winners.) Now people - that's what you call a hero.

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I have to say I'm shocked by the absence of Marlborough. I would have had Wellington up higher on that list, and that's not just speaking as an Irishman. I really do question Bomber Harris on that list in place of Hugh Dowding.

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