Aviation FORUM
Helicopter Dogfight?
Joe@Osprey
Even before some of us had our morning coffee, tea (or coke), an argument broke out in the no-man's land between Marketing and Editorial. Has there even been a helicopter dogfight? Although we can come up with an number of possible scenarios and/or theaters, we can't find any actual examples.
So help us out guys - has anyone ever heard of a helicopter vs. helicopter fight?
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RESPONSES
| Jim McCullough |
1
Wasn't there one a couple of years ago in SoCal between a unit of the State Highway Patrol and a renegade local TV station news copter?
Posted: 09-Apr-2009 12:04
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| AdamC |
2
Good question! There have certainly been cases of helicopters shooting down fixed wing aircraft. An Air America Huey downed an An-2 in Vietnam (there is something on the net about it) and on 24th May 2001 an Israeli AH-64 shot down a Cessna with a Hellfire missile!!!
The only reference I can find to a helicopter Vs helicopter fight comes from the Iran-Iraq war. On November 1980 a Mi 25 and an SA 342 were claimed, February 1981 saw two SA 342 claimed as destroyed. There is vague reference to an Iranian AH-1J taking out an Iraqi SA 342 with a TOW missile sometime in March 1982. Iranian AH-1s also accounted for two SA 342s with cannon fire on 2nd November 1982 and a third the day after. I can also find reference to Iranian Cobra's taking out Iraq Hind gunships in both 1984 and 1986. Another SA 342 was claimed by a Cobra in 1988.
Im always a bit warey of the reliability of both Iranian and Iraq claims during the Iran Iraq war but it is clear that some helicopter Vs helicopter fighting took place.
Hope this helps
Adam C
Posted: 09-Apr-2009 13:26
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| AdamC |
3
Sorry guys, just re-read my earlier post and its not that clear. ALL of the Iran-Iraq war claims refer to Iranian AH-1 Cobra shooting down Iraq helicopters.
Adam C
Posted: 09-Apr-2009 14:11
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| MarkL |
4
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA071904&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
An interesting addition to the discussion is this paper written in 1979 by a USMC LT Col for the US Army War College. It's a study of helicopter air to air combat between Hinds and USMC helicopters.
Posted: 09-Apr-2009 15:18
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| Ildirim |
5
Read the Marine Corps paper - fascinating stuff. But rather frustratingly givne the original question it says at the beginning "Since little helicopter to helicopter combat has actually occurred ......". This implies even in the seventies that some helicopter to helicopter combat HAD occurred, I wish he'd said more about this.
Posted: 14-Apr-2009 16:19
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| El Jibaro |
6
I ran across a 2003 article on helicopter air-to-air combat from Military Review, semi-official magazine from the US War College.
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/attitude.pdf
The authors indicate that:
"In the late 1960s, a U.S. utility helicopter (a UH1-C) shot down
a North Vietnamese AN-2 Colt biplane. During the
Falkland Islands war, British helicopters dueled with
Argentinean fixed-wing aircraft, and Argentinean
helicopters fired at British Harrier jets. According
to Russian sources, at least 53 helicopter v. helicopter
fights were recorded during the Iran-Iraq War
(1980-1988). The bulk of the helicopters shot down
during these fights were unarmed combat support
helicopters downed by helicopter gunships. Also
Iranian AH-1 Cobra helicopters successfully attacked
fixed-wing jet aircraft."
Posted: 23-Apr-2009 22:30
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